Comments on Beacon of Masonic Light: A Solution??

I appreciate your stand on regularity - I always k...

2008-11-16T18:50:00.000-08:00

I appreciate your stand on regularity - I always knew it would be only a matter of time before you began to see the reality of the circumstance as well as the value of the concept.

I do wonder, however, why you continue to claim that "13 Grand Lodges in the United States that do not yet recognize Prince Hall Masonry as regular Masonry...were ALSO core Confederate States in the southern United States." Has West Virginia recently recognized Prince Hall & I missed it? West Virginia was a Union state - it broke away when Virginia went with the CSA & Lincoln recognized it as a seperate state by 1863.

Dear Theron, I am a member working under the juris...

2008-04-17T14:02:00.000-07:00

Dear Theron,
I am a member working under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Georgia, I am not however a member of the Grand Lodge because I am not a Past Master. The Grand Lodge of Georgia does not recognize Prince Hall Masonry, You have seen my comments on other pages, i think that you know that i am a freethinking obligationist. It would be nice to see recognition given to Prince Hall Lodges but the Grand Lodge has not made it so, but i still have to stand by my Grand Lodge's rules.

Things will eventually change, and the Grand Masters Lodge is a very good idea i would like to see it eventually happen, it woulld help to regulate uniform law and work and it would help to bring masonry closer togetheron a nationwide basis. It would greatly effect each lodge jurisdiction with keeping up with the times. We need a lot of things in this state, but these rural Georgians just dont keep up with the times like ya'll city slickers do. Just to give you an example, I am 21 I am the youngest member in my lodge, not the newest, but definately the youngest, the next youngest mason at my lodge is 26 and then the next is 28 and we are all the members of my lodge that are below thirty. We have approximately 75 members. There isnt very much youth in Georgia Masonry right now. But change will come one day.

-Freethinker

As a Scottish Rite Mason (32 degree) I always appr...

2008-04-16T10:11:00.000-07:00

As a Scottish Rite Mason (32 degree) I always appreciate blogs and websites of brother Masons. Your Masonic readers will be interested to visit this blog post: http://www.cemeteryspot.com/blog/?p=119

Nice way to dance around the issue Mr.Dunn. How ca...

2008-04-15T09:03:00.000-07:00

Nice way to dance around the issue Mr.Dunn. How can you be a member of the UGLE (as you claim) and the GOdI (as you claim) when according to the UGLE the GOdI IS "irregular and clandestine?" Aren't you in fact sir breaking your obligation by doing so?

No dancing involved at all. I wrote I am PLANNING on joining a lodge just outside London. I have not mailed the petition yet. I am an HONORARY member of the GOdI, as that august body does not allow plural or non resident members.

I am a member, currently, of ONLY the Grand Lodge of California, F&AM and Moreno Valley Lodge. There is nothing in my obligation that would prevent me being a member of the GOdI, the UGLE and the GLoCA.

Now, do you think we can talk about substantive issues instead of trying to dance around the whole regularity issue?

Anonymous, you are clearly not a regular mason, and you clearly have problems with regularity, and apparently, with me. This blog is not the place for you to exorcise YOUR demons. If you want to rail at regular masonry, go to the smoldering stub, that's what they do there.

if you want to rail at me, send me an email, my address is listed on the front page of this blog. Please don't waste any more time on the comments section with this irrelevant issue.

Nice way to dance around the issue Mr.Dunn. How ca...

2008-04-15T08:21:00.000-07:00

Br. Anonymous;Please brother, tts time to stop car...

2008-04-15T06:58:00.000-07:00

Br. Anonymous;

Please brother, tts time to stop carping on the issue of regularity. If you want to make it the focus of your freemasonry, that's fine. This blog entry is about a solution to the perceived problems in some grand lodges and a way to address it.

As for Mainstream and other masonry, the issue of regularity is a grand lodge issue, not an individual issue. Railing at the grand lodges for maintaining regularity of practice and philosophy is really just an attempt to water down what freemasonry REALLY is about by diverting the conversation.

This blog is not the place for railing about the issues of regularity as they are not issues that regular masons worry about.

Please brother, work on your ashlar and stop wasting time with such anger about the issue of regularity. If you are happy with your obedience, enjoy it. If you feel that regularity is the hub on which the future of freemasonry rotates, then rest comfortable in your belief that regular masonry will fail... after 300 years of maintaining regularity.

No one is telling you that you cannot enjoy it or are not a mason because you are not a regular mason.

You are a mason because you were made so in your heart, its what the ritual teaches us. Whether you are a regular mason or not isn't an issue I am interested in. Its not relevant to me as long as you act like a mason and don't try to gain admission to a regular lodge.

Otherwise, who cares?

US Masonry is based upon York Masonry and is such....

2008-04-15T06:36:00.000-07:00

US Masonry is based upon York Masonry and is such. Nothing more nothing less.

US Masonry's ritual is a bastardized version neither York, nor English. George Washington had nothing to do with forming the degrees of US MSM.

Its VERY apparent that it will be years if not ever before MSM will acknowledge their are Freemasons who believe something different that MSM's.

Tolerance, equality and meeting upon the level mean little to MSM when it comes to acknowledging Masons of other systems and the general public will see that, men especially, who desiring to join will see it, ask the questions and get answers that are opposite of what MSM spout as truth.

I have to come to the realization the two shall exist seperately maybe forever and MSM need to understand their exclusiveness is over.

Its time to stop the ill-will and ignore each other and go forward.

Hmmm, you are quite correct that the United States...

2008-04-15T03:32:00.000-07:00

Hmmm, you are quite correct that the United States George Washington Lodges recognize the Grande Oriente d'Italia as regular in all respects, though the UGLE does not. I am so used to thinking of it as regular I forget that it is an "Orient".

Its not really about grand orients vs. grand lodge masonry. the fact is, most grand orients are not recognized as being regular, the two exceptions serve to prove the rule.

The Grand Orient D' Italia is in amity with most U...

2008-04-14T20:43:00.000-07:00

The Grand Orient D' Italia is in amity with most USA Grand Lodges. Curiosly enough they are considered both "irregular" and "clandestine" by the UGLE. You Mr.Dunn have claimed membership in both GOdI and the UGLE. How can this be? Are the UGLE OK with you being a member of an irregular and clandestine group?

The only brothers who put down regularity are irre...

2008-04-14T16:24:00.000-07:00

The only brothers who put down regularity are irregular and clandestine brothers.

If you know a Grand orient in amity with the UGLE, please let me know, since as far as I have been able to determine, the Grand Orients are considered to be irregular and clandestine by all Regular Grand Lodges, that is, those in Amity with the UGLE and the Grand Lodges of the USA, the George Washington Grand Lodges.

If you know any George Washington Grand Lodge in amity with a Grand Orient, please let me know, again, for the same reason as above.

Regularity has a purpose and a reason, and I have written several articles on this blog regarding regularity. It is a system that ensures that only regular lodges, that is, in general, lodges that can trace their charter to a grand lodge that can trace its origin through regular processes all the way back to the UGLE.

I can understand why irregular masons might want to disparage regularity, but being what it is, the objections for the most part, have no value. They are interesting, and mentally stimulating, but they change nothing. Regularity or origin is what it is.

There are those that have raised the argument that because they claim they are regular that in and of itself makes it so... if that were true, regularity would have no meaning, so that argument is easily dismissed as being, again, self serving and of no consequence to real Regularity.

If non traditional, irregular masonry were of import, then they would not spend so much time trying to denigrate regular masonry, but would focus, instead, as regular masons do, on THEIR masonry.

Frankly, the issue of regularity is of little interest to me. Its a grand lodge to grand lodge (or grand orient etc) issue. I will/can only sit in lodge with a regular mason as defined by my grand lodge.

As I have noted elsewhere on this blog, just because I cannot sit in lodge with someone does not mean I cannot treat them as a mason.

And frankly, intruding this whole regularity vs irregularity issue on every single possible occasion is very tiring and does not serve any useful purpose in discussing real, substantive issues... as this blog is attempting to do.

Clandestine, irregular, unrecognized are old tired...

2008-04-14T15:34:00.000-07:00

Clandestine, irregular, unrecognized are old tired meaningless words, that men joining Freemasonry care little about because they are looking for a true form of Freemasonry that has been lost by many mainstream pontificators.

If mainstream Masonry maintains the status quo they will continue down the road of their own demise.

Unity, meeting upon the level, equality, fraternity and liberty are the stone laind to build the fraternity upon, not words of divisions.

Ho hum, here we go with the "irregular and clandes...

2008-04-14T15:33:00.000-07:00

Ho hum, here we go with the "irregular and clandestine" bullcrao again. I wonder why I stopped posting on this blog, it's pointless. The day you start working real AASR as does the George Washington Union let me know.

The George Washington Union is considered, at best...

2008-04-14T14:32:00.000-07:00

The George Washington Union is considered, at best, clandestine and irregular. "George Washington Masonry", as in "Prince Hall Masonry" might still serve as a good nomenclature for REGULAR masonry in the US.

The only problem with simply stating REGULAR masonry is that, as far as my grand lodge, and I, am concerned, Prince Hall IS regular. For that reason we need some kind of nomenclature that does not imply Prince Hall is other than Regular, while still differentiating between the two for purposes of discussion.

I am willing to disregard "George Washington Union" because very few have a) ever heard of it and b) because those that have heard of it know it is not regular masonry.

You asked: Did the Masons in the American Revolution "break" their obligations when they took up arms against their government?

Break their obligations... to whom? To their lodges? No, I do not believe, and please correct me if I am wrong on this, that their obligation did not contain anything about obedience to your country. And taking up arms against oppression has been a quintessential masonic action, many times by many brothers since 1717.

And, I may be wrong on this, but I think our UGLE brothers are way over the American Revolution by now. We are not UGLE masonry, any more than Canadian Masonry is.

Yes, many masons took up arms against the British, in the name of freedom, and while they may have been traitors in the eyes of English law and the monarchy, those men are patriots.

It says so, right here in my history book. If we had lost that particular war, the books would read they were traitors.

A good point was made by Squire Bently today, so g...

2008-04-14T13:19:00.000-07:00

A good point was made by Squire Bently today, so good I added it to the blog article. If a man were to join a "Grand Master's Lodge" because of issues, he might still make donations to his local lodge as he attends that lodge.

That way he might still be welcome in his lodge, even while making his point to the grand lodge.

GEORGE WASHINGTON would never join a 501c10 federa...

2008-04-14T09:06:00.000-07:00

GEORGE WASHINGTON would never join a 501c10 federally regulated organization

his form of freemasonry was a governmental watchdog, standing up to tyranny.

american freemasonry is nothing more than a 501c10 and all of its members are VOLUNTEERS, not freemason.

Most Worshipful Illustrious Volunteer.
no more, no less...

I find the term "George Washington" Masonry quite ...

2008-04-13T21:24:00.000-07:00

I find the term "George Washington" Masonry quite curious. First off you have the historical fact that George Washington was a York Mason who had nothing to do with the current Atient system. Also, we already have "George Washington" Masonry in the USA, it's called the George Washington Union Of Freemasons.

www.georgewashingtonunion.org

Brothers, I think a potential solution for this is...

2008-04-13T12:43:00.000-07:00

Brothers, I think a potential solution for this issue would be the following, which I added to the blog:

A Grand Master's Lodge

For this to work effectively, it would also almost be necessary that a "Grand Master's" Lodge be created (an additional financial incentive to the Grand Lodges as well...) so that a brother from outside the state would not need to find a lodge inside the state willing to be a "host".

This "Grand Masters" lodge has been offered in my grand lodge previously, as a potential solution to other issues, but has been turned down because it would burden a lodge with members for which it was receiving no financial support. This rational alone is one reason why I think it would make a serious impact on the Grand Lodges the brethren left to join the "open" grand lodge. Therefore, the "Grand Master's" Lodge would have to be restricted to members outside the open Grand Lodge. That is a detail for legislative consideration, however.

Bro. Justa, maybe I wasn't clear - One doesn't joi...

2008-04-13T11:54:00.000-07:00

Bro. Justa, maybe I wasn't clear - One doesn't join a Grand Lodge (as you're aware), one joins a lodge. That means that a bro living in a state wound need to travel to another state to find a lodge to his liking and then petition. Considering that some GLs do not allow plural memberships (i.e., membership in two jurisdictions), this would be an impractical solution in several ways.

My point about joining a PH lodge was this: if you feel so strongly about the recognition issue, then maybe the best course of action for you, instead of complaining and tearing down your own GL is to simply demit and join a GL that you can support.

Br. Justa;Yes, a the Grand Master of any jurisdict...

2008-04-13T07:29:00.000-07:00

Br. Justa;

Yes, a the Grand Master of any jurisdiction has oversight of all the workmen in his territory. So if I, as a California mason, visit in South Carolina, I am bound by the rules, edicts and decisions of the Grand Master of South Carolina.

This only makes sense. If a mason were to commit a masonic offense in another jurisdiction, it is still a masonic offense. The Grand Master could, legally, seize my dues card and return it to my Grand Secretary with a note as to the cause of his taking it.

He could also do nothing else other than seize it, which would theoretically ban me from visiting any of HIS lodges. What does this mean practically? Well, chances of it happening are pretty slim... right now.

Right now, my GL does not, for instance, have intervisitation with the M.W. Prince Hall Grand Lodge of F&AM of the State of South Carolina
(2324 Gervais St, Columbia, SC 29204 (phone) 803-254-7210 http://www.mwphglsc.org/), but if it DID, and I visited a lodge under their jurisdiction, the Grand Master of (George Washington) South Carolina could, if he found out, pull my dues card.

This raises an interesting question of Masonic Jurisprudence, since all Grand Lodges have a mutual agreement to recognize actions taken in their jurisdiction regarding membership. This was originally to prevent a man from being expelled by one Grand Lodge and then re-establishing his membership in another.

This is why men such as Jeff Peace and MW Haas, expelled at sight by their Grand Masters cannot simply join another Grand Lodge and continue on. This is my understanding from several brothers, though there may be exceptions.

What will happen in future, I cannot say.

Mainstream Masonry is not happy until they have sa...

2008-04-13T07:23:00.000-07:00

Mainstream Masonry is not happy until they have sat themselves on a pedestal claiming they are the ONLY Masonry and all others do not have their blessing. Inturn claiming that all Light comes from them.

Mainstream Masonry will have to admit there is no such thing as exclusive right. Masonry transcends all divisions, all races, and it meets men on the level. Mainstream Masonry has built walls not Temples.

"Brother Grand Officers tear down this wall."

Theron wrote:What this means in real terms is that...

2008-04-13T06:53:00.000-07:00

Theron wrote:
What this means in real terms is that if a brother is unhappy with his Grand Lodge, for whatever reason (and to hear it on the smoldering stub, all the posters there hate their grand lodges and policies and procedures) they could join a different Grand Lodge, without residency, and no longer be "restricted" by their own Grand Lodge.

The only difficulty I see is some American Grand Lodges claim (or at one time claimed) jurisdiction over any Mason living in the State, regardless of which jurisdiction he fell under. Frankly, I don't know how such a thing could be enforced.

Justa Mason

Tom the Tao Guy queried:What would happen if a pro...

2008-04-13T06:44:00.000-07:00

Tom the Tao Guy queried:
What would happen if a progressive Grand Lodge were to remove its residency requirement for joining a lodge under it for any Master Mason in good standing?

You mean like mine, Tom?

Or England or Scotland?

There must be several in the U.S., as I know a Bro. in Halifax who affiliated with a Lodge in Minnesota and another in one of the southern states.

That said, let me suggest that any brother who feels that strongly about the PH recognition might simply consider dimitting from his GL and joining a PH lodge in his own state.

Which would be impossible if the PH GL in question didn't recognise yours.

Justa Mason

Bro. Theron - Bro. Justa beat me to it - there was...

2008-04-13T04:55:00.000-07:00

Bro. Theron -

Bro. Justa beat me to it - there was a move out here to use the "GW" moniker as a way to distinguish ourselves from the PH GLs; the PH GLs are considered to be "mainstream" out in the Northeast US. But few people cared for the name, especially our friends up in Canada, our 51st state.

I've been using the term F&AM, but really, there's no easy way to describe what we mean.

What would happen if a progressive Grand Lodge were to remove its residency requirement for joining a lodge under it for any Master Mason in good standing?

Seems to me that this is a lot of work for a very small percentage of Masons who might be willing to travel long distances in order to meet bros from another state. I mean, you're not suggesting that they be allowed to join a lodge without being properly investigated, right?

I understand your intention, but personally, I don't see it as practical.

That said, let me suggest that any brother who feels that strongly about the PH recognition might simply consider dimitting from his GL and joining a PH lodge in his own state. Certainly that would be more practical, although it also means that any progressive-minded brother doing so would be one less voice in his own lodge - and GL - to provide some perspective.

http://beaconofmasonlight.blogspot.com

2008-04-12T22:33:00.000-07:00

http://beaconofmasonlight.blogspot.com

PHA actually stands for Prince Hall Affiliation.

2008-04-12T21:54:00.000-07:00

PHA actually stands for Prince Hall Affiliation.